8″ floppy drives are the earliest form of floppy drives connected to early minicomputers. By the time of personal computers, 8″ floppy drives had been replaced with 5.25″ floppy drives. But those 5.25″ (and later drives) were still often based on the Shugard interface. Adrian’s Digital Basement shows how he hooked up an 8″ floppy drive from a TSR-80 Model II to a 386SX computer – and gets it to boot! This is almost certainly something I want to try some day.
It looks like people have been using Raspberry Pi’s to connect and read floppy disks. Below are some of the links. Note that it appears they are only reading data, not writing. See my other posts for both reading and writing to 5.25″ and other floppy drive interfaces.
Have you wanted to read and write data off your old 5.25″ floppy disks with a modern computer? Or how about reading/writing floppies for Apple II, Amiga, ST, or a host of other systems? Or maybe even hooking up a 8″ floppy? It is possible!
There are solutions out there, but they can easily run $100 or more. I, however, picked up the GreaseWeazle and read some of my old 5.25″ disks. Best yet, it only cost $31 Canadian and is one of the more capable solutions. You can supposedly even use your old DOS floppy drive to read/write images for other platforms. If you’re interested in seeing it at work on some unusual formats, this fellow gives a walkthrough of using Greaseweazle to read 3″ Amstrad disks. Pretty darn cool.
Items you’ll need:
GreaseWeazle by Decromancer – the plug-in USB board that makes it all possible. Plug in 3.5″, 5.25″ and 8″ drives and read/write the flux data for hordes of different formats.
Floppy drive – any 5.25″, 3.5″ or 8″ floppy that uses the Shugart interface. This is almost all old PC drives. Even better, GreaseWeazle can use these older DOS drives to read and write Apple, Amiga, ST, and a host of other formats.
USB A to B cable (commonly known as a “USB printer cable”) to connect the GreaseWeazle to your PC
Setup:
Your floppy drive won’t show up in a command prompt like they did back in the old DOS days or like modern USB plug-in 3.5″ drives. Instead, you have to load and write whole images to the drive in one go. This means you need to work with floppy disk images.
Set up your physical floppy drive to be used with GreaseWeazle.
Attach the power cable to a power supply
Attach the data cable to the floppy drive and the GreaseWeazle
Follow the instructions on GreaseWeazle setup and software setup guide.
Plug in the GreaseWeazle to your computer’s USB port
Install and run GreaseWeazle GUI to format a disk, read a disk image, write a disk image, etc. Again, this only works on whole disk images. You can’t browse at a command prompt or read/write individual files/directories.
Optional but helpful tools:
WinImage is a great tool for creating and converting disk image formats.
Use the HxCFloppyEmulator to examine and covert the raw disk images to anything you need.
GreaseWeazle GUI – very handy if you don’t want to use the command line
HxCFloppyEmulator – amazing tool for examining and extracting files you read from the raw flux files you read from disks using GreaseWeazle.
Look under the USB HxC Floppy Emulator and download the ‘HxCFloppyEmulator software’ (https://hxc2001.com/download/floppy_drive_emulator/HxCFloppyEmulator_soft.zip)
I learned to program back on an old TRS-80 Model III computer as a kid. Long before Windows and even DOS, most home computers required you type in programs or load them from cassette tapes. If you were really rich, you might afford a floppy drive, but that was an expensive luxury I never had. My next computer was an IBM XT, and it ran the advanced and stalwart DOS 3.30 – which was dramatically better.
Running those old operating systems today requires you either buy one of those old systems and keep it running, or you have to emulate them. You can easily emulate DOS 3.3 and Windows 3.0 and higher on VMWare or Virtualbox, but going earlier than doesn’t seem to be supported anymore.
Enter 86Box – an emulator that lets you emulate REALLY old machines. In fact, I was able to get Dos 3.2 running Windows 1.0.
Start 86Box and set up 86Box by selecting Tools->Settings from the top menu, and set the system up with the following settings.
Part 2: DOS 3.2 and Windows 1.01 install
Start up the 86Box.
Set Media->Floppy 1 to disk01.img, then issue a ‘CTRL-ALT-DEL’ to reset it. The system should start up and boot to the dos 3.20 floppy drive
Run ‘fdisk’ and it should detect your hard drive. You’ll need to create a partition to set up the hard drive.
Reboot and boot from the DOS 3.20 disk again.
Format the hard drive by using ‘format c: /s’
Set Media->Floppy 1 to ‘DISK1-SETUP.IMG’ from the Windows 1.01 (5.25)
[optional] type ‘set prompt=$p$g’ if you want to see your full path in the command prompt
Run ‘setup’ from a: and follow the instructions to install Windows 1.01 on C:. Change the disks when prompted by selecting Media->Floppy 1 and setting it to each of the floppy disks for the Windows setup until it’s completed.
Floppy disks are a relic of the past these days. You can still see the odd 3.5″ floppy – and there are even still companies making 3.5″ USB drives you can plug into your system today. But 5.25″ floppy drives (360k and 1.2 meg variety) are much more scarce. So scarce, in fact, that you’re likely not to find any outside of an old vintage computer. Most modern PC’s since the Pentium don’t even have connectors, interfaces that support them, and I know of no vendors that make USB 5.25″ drives. Even worse, it appears starting in Windows 10, the floppy drivers were removed from the OS.
So what is one to do if they have old 5.25″ floppies they need to read? Turns out others have had the same problem – so you’re not alone.
Here’s some options:
Find a service that will convert them – Usually for a fee around $5-$25 per disk.
Buy an vintage computer from eBay that has a working 5.25″ drive. For PC’s, this means a 486 or lower computer. Almost all plug-in floppy controllers require a PC who’s motherboard has an ISA interface (not PCI). You must be careful because older 8-bit ISA floppy controllers (from the XT/AT era) often will NOT work in faster 386/486/Pentium ISA interfaces (even though they are supposed too and early 486 motherboards let you slow down the ISA interface clocks in BIOS). Vintage Apple, Commodore 64, and other computers can be found on local sales forums, ebay, garage sales, and swap meets. You can then potentially copy the data off and transfer to a modern computer using a network or a serial port transfer cable.
Use a flux-style reader. These allow you to attach a 5.25″ drive to a controller board which then connects to your USB port. The big limitation is that you cannot interact with the disks via DOS or command line options. Instead, you need to read/write whole disk images or operate at the sector level. These readers do this by reading flux data. While this is more complicated, it is the method that archivists are using to backup disks. Reading flux data gives you the ability to read/write disks from almost any platform and in any format – even copy protected disks.
GreaseWeasle V4[NEW 2022] – https://decromancer.ca/greaseweazle/ Interfaces with 8″, 5 1/4″, and 3 1/2″ drives. Amazingly, it only costs $31 CAD and seems to get as good reviews as the Kryoflux. Definitely one of the cheapest options on this list. Since it extracts the raw flux transitions from the drive, any diskette format can be captured and analyzed – PC, Amiga, Amstrad, PDP-11, and just about any other computers as well as many older electronic musical instruments and industrial equipment floppies. They also include a wonderful array of disk reading/writing software utilities. The design is fully open and comes with no license encumberment. [UPDATE 10-2022] I bought one of these and could not be happier (lots of info here). It’s pretty sweet!
SuperCard Pro – https://www.cbmstuff.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=52 Seems like this is the new high-end champion. Not cheap at $99, but it gets regular firmware updates, can read an amazing array of flux data. Can be driven from a USB port or as a stand alone device. Supports duplicating disks that were written with the data starting and ending at the index pulse (the majority of all commercial programs were created this way). It also supports non-index copied disks and has an analyzer program that allows you to duplicate 100% of everything written on standard circular tracks, regardless of their relation to the index pulse.
Kryoflux – https://www.kryoflux.com/ Used to be the holy grail of floppy readers, but not cheap at 105€. It is able to read all formats, save as a raw stream, or export to common sector formats like the Acorn Electron, Apple, Amstrad CPC, Archimedes, Atari 8-bit, Atari ST, BBC, Commodore 64, Commodore Amiga, MSX, IBM PC, PC-8801, Sam Coupe, Spectrum, E-MU Emulator & Emulator II, DEC RX01 & RX02 and many others.
Device Side Data’s FC5025 –http://www.deviceside.com/fc5025.html USB 5.25″ floppy controller plugs into any computer’s USB port and enables you to attach a 5.25″ floppy drive. Even if your computer has no built-in floppy controller, the FC5025 lets you read those old disks. It also understands formats used by Apple, Atari, Commodore, TI, and others.
DREM – https://www.drem.info/ DREM is a MFM/RLL hard drive emulator that can read raw dumps of a hard drive. It also allows you to read floppies. More here.
Cables/Adapters for connecting 3.5/5.25/8″ floppy drives to your PC:
Finding cables for your floppy drive can also be a pain. Here are some places you might look, but supplies and suppliers do come and go frequently.
CablesOnline – http://www.cablesonline.com/ also their (ebay store) CablesOnline has a good selection of universal floppy cables for a very reasonable price.
They also have MFM and RLL hard drive cables (and can make them to order)
Dbit – http://www.dbit.com/fdadap.html The DBit FDADAP board is a small adapter which adapts 8″ floppy disk drives (Shugart SA800 style bus) to work with the PC 3.5″/5.25″ floppy disk cable pinout. It has 34- and 50-pin connectors which can be connected to the PC floppy controller and the 8″ disk drive using simple straight-through ribbon cables (not included), and a 3.5″ style power connector for the on-board microcontroller
TexElec – https://texelec.com/product/8-inch-floppy-adapter/ TexElec makes tons of retro computing dream boards (clone Adlib, IDE, floppy, and other controllers) as well as this 34 to 50 pin 8″ floppy drive adapter board that allows you to plug in 8″ floppy disk drives with a standard PC 3.5″/5.25″ floppy disk cable.
Dead/Discontinued controllers
Catweasel – http://www.nishtek.com/cw.html Discontinued PCI board for connecting to floppies. Like other solutions, it doesn’t make drives show up as a drive letter – but rather lets you read raw formats for all sorts of platforms.
Other resources/discussions:
TULARC – MASSIVE resource of information about vintage hard drive, floppy drive, motherboard, disk controller cards, IO cards, etc. Pinouts, drive format properties, jumpers, specs, and so forth. Probably the most amazing resource of vintage setup info on the web I’ve found.